15 comments on “Armchair Detective rebuttal of Missing Maura Murray EP 64

  • Firstly, since I feel I should address this as you brought it up, while my sister was killed by a police officer he was off-duty and it was an accident. I initially had my misgivings about how thoroughly, if at all, it would be investigated, but I was steadfast in making sure it was properly handled by outside jurisdictions, and in the end, after a very long, stressful, and trying time it was done to my satisfaction.

    This was not any sort of impetus for an “anti-police agenda” like James Renner very crudely and incorrectly stated. There are already a plethora of instances of local cover-ups and police misconduct (Patric McCarthy case, Richard Dow case…) to warrant to make one nervous about such a thing, and I just wanted to be able to put my head on the pillow at night and know that my sister got every ounce of justice that she deserved. Nothing more, nothing less.

    I sound like a broken record on this point, but hearing you and Cold espouse what I’ve been saying since the beginning of my involvement in this “community”, about Witness A’s account being both concrete and potentially of significant importance will never cease to be Bizarro World to me. And welcome aboard the “Fed Up With This Online Community” Train. Been riding it for a while now myself.

    Is there any way you would feel comfortable calling Cecil Smith back, explaining the conversation you previously had and how it differs from what he told the Oxygen series, and asking for an explanation on the discrepancies? Not that you should record that (again that violates at least one wiretapping law that I know of), but I ‘d be interested in hearing you relay how he danced around that.

    • Hey Alex, I’m sorry if I offended you in any way. I just know that you have a good take on law enforcement in the area and that is all I meant, I’m so sorry for bringing up your sister’s death. I think re-calling Cecil is a great idea but I highly doubt he would answer or tell the truth at this point, but I will take you up on that and hopefully get a hold of him again this week… hopefully Jeff Strelzin won’t get on my back for that, I just want the truth.

  • Looking back at old forums from 2008 or 2009-ish, everyone on there seemed to think that Cecil was driving SUV#001. There was no mention (that i read) of another officer in the 001 SUV. Even John Smith was under this impression as he makes posts about measuring the height of the SUV bumper to see if perhaps Maura slid into the back of 001 on Swiftwater Rd in the 7:05 scanner call. It makes me wonder why at a date closer to the actual crash, everyone stated Cecil came to the scene in 001, then at some point in the future, everyone says he was in the Sedan (perhaps due to the H2 moniker). Then on Oxygen he comes out and says he was in 001, but at some point before the filming he told you he was in 002. It just makes my head spin because there is so much back and forth and changing of stories and narratives/beliefs that nothing seems to make any sense.

    • To be honest, i’m not sure where you’re getting your information. JS has been saying that the SUV was being worked on the day Maura disappeared and never mentioned that Cecil was in 001. This ONLY came from the Oxygen show.

      • Sorry to be so long to reply. Here is the link:


        From 2009
        This doesn’t debunk anything John or anyone else is currently saying about #001. It very well could have been another cop I just thought it was interesting that 8 years ago, all the people following this case, in this forum, speak of Cecil Smith driving #001. Like I said, it makes my head spin. This case does that. You follow one thing and believe you have a handle on stuff, and then you read something else, or re-examine timelines, or whatever, and you get a whole different feeling on the case. And then it changes


        • Yeah that forum post also says they have pics, I didn’t see any pics, did I miss something? From what I read, the premise of them concluding that Cecil Smith was driving the SUV was because of the damage on Maura’s vehicle which they attribute to a trailer hitch. Problem is there are many Ford Explorers which aren’t police cars which also have trailer hitch, heck there are many pick up trucks and SUV vehicles with tow hitch. This conclusion is very flawed at best unless there was paint transfer that could have been analysed and that the paint chips matched the make up of the paint chips on the cruiser’s hitch….

  • I listened to this episode. First off I agree with you on many points. The Oxygen show was an absolute joke. I think Art tried to keep professional but the show was not done well. First off while I think some of the things people say might have happened to Maura are way off base I don’t claim to have debunked it with no evidence. Nobody knows what exactly happened so you can only say one thing has a higher probability than other scenarios. I think Maggie was a very marginal host. How she even got that show I don’t know. However during TV scenes even in cold weather it’s probably best not to wear a jacket with a hoodie covering your face when you are going to have to talk on camera. I also listened to them on True Crime Garage and she seemed to have somewhat of an attitude and fondness of whatever Jamer Renner had to say. I saw the episode where they interviewed the podcast guys. What I found so freaking hilarious is after 60 some episodes they tell Maggie and Art I don’t even have a theory of what happened after all this time. I mean c’mon dude after 60 damn episodes you don’t have a theory of what happened. You can’t put yourself out there with what you think happened. You are claiming to be an expert on the case and you have no opinion or theory. At that point I went from Hmm Maybe I will listen to a few episodes to are you kidding me. Do I want to listen to 60 episodes of information without a theory by these so called case experts. At this point it seems like a sponsor and money grab for them. At least Renner has an opinion. I read his book it’s one sided toward his opinion but at least he gave one. If there was one thing I did get from the Oxygen show and I am happy I did is I got to see what I think the true Fred Murray is. He is not some maniac who drove his daughter’s crazy and ruled them with some Iron fist and he is some cold and shady character. I saw a very smart and caring man who wants to find his daughter. I don’t blame him for questioning the things he did and what law enforcement did for his daughter. You can tell he has genuine grief. I feel bad he has had to take cheap shots from trolls online and listen to wild baseless accusations people throw at him. I am glad you said what you did and stood up for yourself and your podcast. I have my opinion of what happened with Maura. I believe Butch offered her a ride and she did not take it. Maybe it was because he was a bit intimidating looking. However I believe after she said No to him she knew he was local and knew there was no cell phone reception. I think she also knew since he was driving a bus he might have an obligation to call the Police. So at that point I think she got desperate to get out of the area and took the next ride with a person who was not intimidating looking. Maybe a younger person. At that point it just happened to be the wrong person at the wrong time. I know the percentages are low but these things happen.

      • No problem it’s good that you called them out. People who listen to these podcasts should let you know that it’s good to have people out there willing to call people out and bring truth to light. One thing I have to bring up about the Oxygen show that was total television drama was the hike in the woods. I mean with those GPS coordinates it would have taken a team of Navy Seals flying a Blackhawk Choppers to get a body anywhere near where those coordinates were. I mean c’mon get real. I was waiting for Jason or Freddy to jump out once they got to the middle of nowhere but all we got was a tree.

  • ~ whether you believe former Army Intell & police officer Cecil Smith’s Oxygen version OR his version w/ ACD OR Haverill PD’s statement to WitnessA – it appears whether #001 being on OR off the road that nite is a BIG big deal – to someone or something. Since it seems we may never get an honest answer if #001 was in OR out of commission – let’s brainstorm WHY that info is so crucial that someone/something is going to great lengths to hide it. ….want me go first?

    • You can go first, but I’ll just add a note. I don’t believe in a police conspiracy and I’m not even sure why there’s a contradiction about 001/002. My personal opinion is that the Grafton County Sheriff’s department made several mistakes in their record keeping on the night Maura disappeared. You can clearly see that when they release 3 different dispatch logs and tell PI John Healy that 002 was out of commission that night. In my opinion we need to stick to the information that was released soon after Maura’s crash, which would mean Healy’s account that LE told him that 002 was off the road that night was the correct statement and not the statement given by Cecil Smith to Oxygen 14 years later especially since when I spoke to Cecil Smith several months ago he confirmed Healy’s take on it.

      • ….The word Conspiracy is like the word Lie. By definition it has a negative connotation. Nobody likes a liar, right? except when a lie is for the greater good. Chew on that for a sec. If you lie, not for any gain, or malicious reason, a lie aint so bad….. remember the M*A*S*H ep. where they changed the time of death so the solider didnt die on Christmas Day for the sake of the family? Bet nobody yelled “liars!” at the TV. My POINT is, there ARE inconsistencies IN the logs, the witnesses, LE statements, LE agencies… when do we stop making excuses & ASK why that would beeee? Maybeeee the “conspiracy theory” is correct but for a GOOD reason not an evil one. Who says the Blue Wall of Silence is always corrupt?

  • Didn’t you mean to say 001 was off the road that night and not 002? Listen to the MMM podcast episode when the duo interviews the psychic. Listen to the episode from the very beginning and take note.

  • Also, at least the show brought to light discrepancies in various versions of events. That’s a start. But it’s not worth blowing a gasket over. Keep a cool head!

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